REFLECTOR: FIRE, SAFETY, OBSERVATIONS, ETC. (for Jim Agnew and others)

Scott Derrick reflector@tvbf.org
Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:53:14 -0600


I would have liked to have heard the Velocities-are-Dangerous comments.

I have always assumed I knew about all the accidents because I had my 
ear to the ground so to speak.  When I owned a V-Tail Bonanza I knew 
about all the rumors, crashes( current and past), etc..  Seemed like 
there was a Bonanza incident a couple times a week.

Do the facts really add up to V's being more prone to accidents? 
Anybody done a simple pilot-error/mechanical/act-of-god  analysis?

I know that some certified planes have gotten a bad rap because of a few 
very public accidents and possibly a small increase over the average 
accident rate.

I mean look at the Cirrus, if you look at its rate its a flying coffin! 
  Bad plane, bad pilots, bad luck??

Scott

Tom Martino wrote:
> I understand the purpose of the Reflector is to exchange ideas and give opinions.  I gave mine.  It's all good.  I mean no offense to those who want to put windows in their firewalls.  I feel adequate fire detection and suppression would be a better alternative.  I also thank you for the suggestion on the fuel cut off.  You are right.
> 
> When I a previously asked about the Velocity safety record (in regard to other experimental aircraft) ... I got a ton of responses -- PRIVATELY.
> 
> They expressed concerns over the safety and reliability of the Velocity.  It is interesting that none was willing to post publicly.
> 
>>From what I gathered, Velocity is a solid design and really not that complicated.  However, unlike Lancairs -- most Velocities are built by the owners and NOT by professionals.  That could be the reason they have a dismal record compared to the Lancair.  (By the way, I'm all for owners doing the work!)
> 
> I also think Lancair builders are willing to spend more -- possibly because they have already resigned themselves to buying a very expensive kit to begin with.  Whereas the Velocity price is reasonable enough to get people into the project ... yet expensive enough to "tax" their resources when it comes to completing them with the best of materials.
> 
> One example is the recent discussion on Reflector regarding "Eyeball Vents".  The photos show cruddy old vents that needed a lot of work to make them perfect.  The savings?  Maybe $30.  You can buy beautiful brushed aluminum vents for $85.  Does it seem reasonable to invest all this time and money in a project and skimp on such little things?  While eyeball vents are not a safety item, it does say something about the culture of "Velocity".
> 
> I have seen dozens of planes and it amazes me how many of them cut corners or go the "cheaper" route just to save a few bucks.
> 
> I am not advocating spending money for the hell of it ... but this is a "once in a lifetime project" for many ... and you may as well do it "top shelf" from, the beginning.
> 
> Incidentally ... ALL of the Velocity builders I've met are nicer than Lancair builders!  And the Velocity Factory people are great.
> 
> By the way ... I have four new (machine gray) eyeball vents I'd like to give away to anyone who cares to email me with their mailing address.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Agnew [mailto:jim_agnew_2@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:14 PM
> To: Velocity Reflector
> Subject: Fwd: Re: REFLECTOR: fire warning (was explosion) (CORRECTION)
> 
> 
> This note should have been in response to Tom Martino !
> 
> Sorry
> 
> --- Jim Agnew <jim_agnew_2@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:33:41 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: Jim Agnew <jim_agnew_2@yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: fire warning (was explosion)
>>To: reflector@tvbf.org
>>
>>Well Ronnie, I don't think that I'm crazy and long ago I
>>installed a "POSSIBLE FIRE DETECTION system" in my aft
>>cowling.  
>>
>>Is the Velocity a time bomb, no, however it does have
>>what
>>in my opinion is a serious defect in the lack of a fuel
>>cutoff.  If you do get a fire you have two choices, keep
>>the engine running and if it is a gas fire keep pumping
>>gas
>>into the fire or shut your engine down and try to get on
>>the ground as soon as possible.  One problem, the prop
>>will
>>probably windmill and keep pumping gas into the fire.
>>
>>Now you know why I have a fuel cutoff valve in the plane
>>on
>>the inside of the engine bulkhead.
>>
>>It is an individual choice and you have either not
>>thought
>>about the problem or have dismissed it. Others see that
>>there is a potential problem and are looking for
>>solutions
>>and that is exactly what the reflector is for.
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>--- Tom Martino <tmartino@troubleshooter.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Thank God the general public doesn't ready these
>>>postings!  A window in
>>>the firewall to see a fire?  Are we going mad?
>>> 
>>>It sounds as if Velocities are flying time bombs just
>>>waiting to burst
>>>into flames.  Come on ... lets get real.
>>> 
>>>We should put all of our efforts into preventing fires
>>
>>to
>>
>>>begin with,
>>>then we should explore realistic detection equipment
>>
>>that
>>
>>>won't require
>>>peaking through a freekin window behind the back seat.
>>> 
>>>I can jus imagine how that window will go over with my
>>>passengers:
>>> 
>>>"Tom, isn't that nice a rear window!"
>>> 
>>>Oh that, I put it there to spot flames in the engine
>>>compartment.
>>> 
>>>After fire detection, perhaps a fire suppression system
>>>would be in
>>>order.
>>> 
>>>Are Velocities that prone to fire?  Are we
>>
>>exaggerating? 
>>
>>> 
>>>Back on the topic of a window ... ever see your oven
>>>glass when smoke
>>>and fire actually erupt in the oven.  It goes black
>>
>>from
>>
>>>soot.
>>> 
>>>I have to believe that there are other modifications we
>>>can do besides a
>>>fire window.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>
>>=====
>>James F. Agnew
>>Jim_Agnew_2@Yahoo.Com
>>Tampa, FL
>>Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed
>>
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> James F. Agnew
> Jim_Agnew_2@Yahoo.Com
> Tampa, FL
> Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed
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