REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection
Hiroo Umeno
reflector@tvbf.org
Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:45:42 -0700
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One idea may be to install the "wingtip cam". I have been researching
this but one could install a small CCD camera on the wingtip (perhaps on
the lower winglet) that can be panned. Not only it would offer a way to
"see" if your cowl is blowing smoke / fire but it will also serve as
"rear-view mirror" when starting engine, and offer a feed for your
in-flight footage.
=20
The cameras can be had for less than $100 these days, and a small LCD
monitors can be had for about the same.
=20
Hiroo
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Jeffrey Clough
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:00 AM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection
=20
I didn't mean to start a war...was just wondering ...wasn't really
thinking of a 'window' per se, just a very small piece of glass
installed in the firewall which wouldn't weaken the firewall anymore
than all the holes we drill through it. Have you ever actually had a
fire in your oven or grill....even if the glass is blackened you can
still see flames and blackened glass would likely mean fire to me and
warrant landing for investigation. It is not a window for looking at
your fine engine installation or the view from the back of the plane,
just a simple way to double check should, (despite all your efforts at
preventing a fire), your alarm system (thermal fuses or whatever) go
off. Certified airplane mfrs all do their best to prevent fires(don't
they?), but they still DO happen (but they are much more obvious). With
a pusher you are just likely to not know about it for a while
longer...maybe at which point it is too late.
I have never seen a plane with an electrical fire, oil fire or fuel
fire, but I suspect they all produce a lot of black smoke..... I have a
small convex mirror I was planning on attaching to one of my leading
edge vortillons for veiwing (again..just a simple double check) my RG
status...wonder if I could see smoke coming from the cowl? J Clough
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tom Martino <mailto:tmartino@troubleshooter.com> =20
To: reflector@www.tvbf.org=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: fire warning (was explosion)
=20
Thank God the general public doesn't ready these postings! A
window in the firewall to see a fire? Are we going mad?
=20
It sounds as if Velocities are flying time bombs just waiting to
burst into flames. Come on ... lets get real.
=20
We should put all of our efforts into preventing fires to begin
with, then we should explore realistic detection equipment that won't
require peaking through a freekin window behind the back seat.
=20
I can jus imagine how that window will go over with my
passengers:
=20
"Tom, isn't that nice a rear window!"
=20
Oh that, I put it there to spot flames in the engine
compartment.
=20
After fire detection, perhaps a fire suppression system would be
in order.
=20
Are Velocities that prone to fire? Are we exaggerating? =20
=20
Back on the topic of a window ... ever see your oven glass when
smoke and fire actually erupt in the oven. It goes black from soot.
=20
I have to believe that there are other modifications we can do
besides a fire window.
=20
=20
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One idea may be to install the =
“wingtip
cam”. I have been researching this but one could install a =
small
CCD camera on the wingtip (perhaps on the lower winglet) that can be =
panned.
Not only it would offer a way to “see” if your cowl is =
blowing
smoke / fire but it will also serve as “rear-view mirror” =
when
starting engine, and offer a feed for your in-flight =
footage.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The cameras can be had for less =
than $100
these days, and a small LCD monitors can be had for about the =
same.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hiroo</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
reflector-admin@tvbf.org
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf
Of </span></b>Jeffrey Clough<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Thursday, July
17, 2003</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>1:00 =
AM</span></font><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
reflector@tvbf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> =
REFLECTOR:Secondary fire
detection</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><strong><b><font =
size=3D4
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I didn't mean to start a war...was just wondering ...wasn't =
really
thinking of a 'window' per se, just a very small piece of glass =
installed in
the firewall which wouldn't weaken the firewall anymore than all the =
holes we
drill through it. Have you ever actually had a =
fire in
your oven or grill....even if the glass is blackened you can still see =
flames
and blackened glass would likely mean fire to me and warrant landing for
investigation. It is not a window for looking at your fine engine
installation or the view from the back of the plane, just a simple way =
to
double check should, (despite all your efforts at preventing a =
fire), your
alarm system (thermal fuses or whatever) go off. Certified airplane =
mfrs
all do their best to prevent fires(don't they?), but they still DO =
happen (but
they are much more obvious). With a pusher you are just likely to not =
know
about it for a while longer...maybe at which point it is too =
late.</span></font></b></strong></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><strong><b><font =
size=3D4
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> I have never seen a plane with an electrical =
fire,
oil fire or fuel fire, but I suspect they all produce a lot of =
black
smoke..... I have a small convex mirror I was planning on attaching to =
one of
my leading edge vortillons for veiwing (again..just a simple double =
check) my
RG status...wonder if I could see smoke coming from the =
cowl? J
Clough</span></font></b></strong></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font></p>
</div>
<div style=3D'font-color:black'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href=3D"mailto:tmartino@troubleshooter.com" =
title=3D"tmartino@troubleshooter.com">Tom
Martino</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href=3D"mailto:reflector@www.tvbf.org" =
title=3D"reflector@www.tvbf.org">reflector@www.tvbf.org</a>
</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> =
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Wednesday, July 16, 2003</span></font><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> =
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>8:07 PM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Re:
REFLECTOR: fire warning (was explosion)</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thank
God the general public doesn’t ready these postings! A =
window in
the firewall to see a fire? Are we going mad?</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>It
sounds as if Velocities are flying time bombs just waiting to burst into
flames. Come on ... lets get real.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>We
should put all of our efforts into preventing fires to begin with, then =
we
should explore realistic detection equipment that won’t require =
peaking
through a freekin window behind the back seat.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I can
jus imagine how that window will go over with my =
passengers:</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>“Tom,
isn’t that nice a rear window!”</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Oh
that, I put it there to spot flames in the engine =
compartment.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>After
fire detection, perhaps a fire suppression system would be in =
order.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Are
Velocities that prone to fire? Are we exaggerating? =
</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Back on
the topic of a window ... ever see your oven glass when smoke and fire =
actually
erupt in the oven. It goes black from soot.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I have
to believe that there are other modifications we can do besides a fire =
window.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font></p>
</blockquote>
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=00
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