REFLECTOR:CONFUSION

Tom Martino reflector@tvbf.org
Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:31:08 -0600


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Thanks Scott (and others) for the feed back.  I already own an MT-3
blade prop and governor.  However, according to the MT factory, the most
I can shorten it is to 173cm, (if needed to prevent prop problems with
the longer engine).  So, I may end up having to get a four blade if I
stick to a constant speed (MT says those can be reduced to 163cm, if
needed). =20
=20
Any idea of the weight difference?  And difference in fuel burn?
=20
Tom Martino
www.troubleshooter.com <http://www.troubleshooter.com/> =20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Baker [mailto:sbakr@comcast.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:13 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:CONFUSION
=20
A lot of what Alan has relayed sounds reasonable, but that does not mean
that you will be happy with the performance of a one-speed bicycle, no
matter how strongly developed your leg muscles.  A constant speed
propeller allows the engine to develop more horsepower on takeoff, which
in turn offers maximum performance.  Also, a constant speed propeller
offers better fuel economy and it can also be used as a drag device in
descents.  A constant speed propeller, when placed in the low rpm
setting during emergency power-out situations also improves the
aircraft's glide ratio ... considerably.  On the flip side, constant
speed propellers cost about 5-times what a fixed pitch propeller will
cost, not including a governor ... so price does become a factor.  The
weight savings of a fixed pitch propeller is not, in my opinion, reason
to select one over the other.  Cooling works well with either type of
propeller.  Most Velocity pilots, I would say, wish for a constant speed
propeller if price were not a factor.  I personally think the decision
boils down to $$ budget and how badly you long for the improved
versatility of performance.
Scott B.
	----- Original Message -----=20
	From: Tom Martino <mailto:tmartino@troubleshooter.com> =20
	To: reflector@www.tvbf.org=20
	Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:06 AM
	Subject: REFLECTOR:CONFUSION
	=20
	You know what they say about opinions?  They're like Assh---s
... everybody's got one!  My problem is ... they're all different.
	=20
	I have a 173 Elite RG with an IO-540 engine.  I just spoke to
Alan Shaw and he swears that a constant speed prop is NOT necessary.  He
says the added weight is not worth it and it will actually cut down your
cruise speeds a bit.  He said climb performance won't be a problem with
that engine ... and the Velocity will be better off without the extra
weight back there.
	=20
	He recommended a three-blade performance prop made by
Performance Props in Arizona.  He said it should be put on a five inch
extension and it will fit perfectly with the cowl he designed.
	=20
	He said the fixed pitch also helps with cooling because it can
get closer to the big cowl openings on each side of the prop and it will
actually "suck out" air creating a cooling effect.
	=20
	He also said that the exhaust pointing straight out the back
through two ports (bottom left and right) will actually cause a venturi
effect inside the cowl ... which will force cool air to exit around it -
again aiding in the cooling of the engine.
	=20
	He talked for a long time and sounded completely confident and
knowledgeable. =20
	=20
	Since his advice seems to be contrary to a lot of other opinions
... my question to you is this:
	=20
	DOES IT SOUND REASONABLE?
	=20
	I am getting to a point where I need to make some decisions.
Any feedback will be appreciated.  The discussions I have seen here are
very intelligent and I want to take advantage of your BRAINS.
	=20
	Thanks in advance.
	=20
	Tom Martino
	www.troubleshoter.com <http://www.troubleshoter.com/> =20
	=20
	=20
	=20

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks Scott (and others) for the =
feed
back.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>I already own an =
MT-3 blade prop
and governor. <span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span>However, =
according to the MT
factory, the most I can shorten it is to 173cm, (if needed to prevent =
prop
problems with the longer engine). <span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;</span>So, I
may end up having to get a four blade if I stick to a constant speed (MT =
says
those can be reduced to 163cm, if needed).<span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Any idea of the =
weight
difference?</span></font></span><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>And difference in fuel =
burn?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:PersonName><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tom =
Martino</span></font></st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><a =
href=3D"http://www.troubleshooter.com/">www.troubleshooter.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>&nbsp;</span></fon=
t><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Scott Baker
[mailto:sbakr@comcast.net<span class=3DGramE>] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent</span></b></span><b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>:</span></b> </span></font><st1:date =
Month=3D"7" Day=3D"15"
Year=3D"2003"><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
 Tahoma'>Tuesday, July 15, 2003</span></font></st1:date><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
</span></font><st1:time
Hour=3D"23" Minute=3D"13"><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Tahoma'>11:13 PM</span></font></st1:time><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
reflector@tvbf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
REFLECTOR<span
class=3DGramE>:CONFUSION</span></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A lot of what Alan has =
relayed
sounds reasonable, but that does not mean that you will be happy with =
the
performance of a one-speed bicycle, no matter how strongly developed =
your leg
muscles.&nbsp; A constant speed propeller allows the engine to develop =
more
horsepower on takeoff, which in turn offers maximum performance.&nbsp; =
Also, a
constant speed propeller offers better fuel economy and it can also be =
used as
a drag device in descents.&nbsp; A constant speed propeller, when placed =
in the
low rpm setting during emergency power-out situations also improves the
aircraft's glide ratio ... considerably.&nbsp; On the flip side, =
constant speed
propellers cost about 5-times what a fixed pitch propeller will cost, =
not
including a governor ... so price does become a factor.&nbsp; The weight
savings of a fixed pitch propeller is not, in my opinion, reason to =
select one
over the other.&nbsp; Cooling works well with either type of =
propeller.&nbsp;
Most Velocity pilots, I would say, wish for a constant speed propeller =
if price
were not a factor.&nbsp; I personally think the decision boils down to =
$$
budget and how badly you long for the improved versatility of =
performance.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Scott =
B.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message =
----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div style=3D'font-color:black'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:tmartino@troubleshooter.com" =
title=3D"tmartino@troubleshooter.com">Tom
Martino</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span><=
/font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:reflector@www.tvbf.org" =
title=3D"reflector@www.tvbf.org">reflector@www.tvbf.org</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><st1:date
Month=3D"7" Day=3D"16" Year=3D"2003"><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Wednesday, July 16, =
2003</span></font></st1:date><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font><st1:time
Hour=3D"0" Minute=3D"6"><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
 font-family:Arial'>12:06 AM</span></font></st1:time><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</s=
pan></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
REFLECTOR:CONFUSION<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>You know what they say =
about
opinions?<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>They&#8217;re =
like Assh---s
... everybody&#8217;s got one!<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; =
</span>My
problem is ... they&#8217;re all different.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I have a 173 Elite RG with =
an IO-540
engine.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>I just spoke to =
Alan Shaw and he
swears that a constant speed prop is NOT necessary.<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>He says the added weight is not =
worth it and
it will actually cut down your cruise speeds a bit.<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>He said climb performance =
won&#8217;t be a
problem with that engine ... and the </span></font><st1:PersonName><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Velocity</span></font></st1:=
PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> will be
better off without the extra weight back =
there.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>He recommended a =
three-blade
performance prop made by Performance Props in =
</span></font><st1:State><st1:place><font
  size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Arizona</span></font></st1:p=
lace></st1:State><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>.<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>He said it should be put on a =
five inch
extension and it will fit perfectly with the cowl he =
designed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>He said the fixed pitch =
also helps
with cooling because it can get closer to the big cowl openings on each =
side of
the prop and it will actually &#8220;suck out&#8221; air creating a =
cooling
effect.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>He also said that the =
exhaust
pointing straight out the back through two ports (bottom left and right) =
will
actually cause a venturi effect inside the cowl ... which will force =
cool air
to exit around it &#8211; again aiding in the cooling of the =
engine.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>He talked for a long time =
and
sounded completely confident and knowledgeable.<span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Since his advice seems to =
be contrary
to a lot of other opinions ... my question to you is =
this:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>DOES IT SOUND =
REASONABLE?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I am getting to a point =
where I need
to make some decisions.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; =
</span>Any feedback
will be appreciated.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>The =
discussions I
have seen here are very intelligent and I want to take advantage of your
BRAINS.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thanks in =
advance.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Tom =
Martino<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a
href=3D"http://www.troubleshoter.com/">www.troubleshoter.com</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-no-proof:yes'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

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