REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT Prop
Chuck Jensen
reflector@tvbf.org
Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:36:15 -0500
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Dave,
No flames intended. My direct, personal experience with MT was not that
different from yours. However, when a person has a prop at their repair
shop in Florida, and 2 emails, 2 faxes and 2 voicemails don't get answered
over a 3 day period, I'm less than impressed. When I was finally able to
talk to Jurgen (I think he accidently answered the phone), he was obviously
a competent and intelligent individual. My enthusiasm was tempered only by
his obvious disinterest in working to anything other than his schedule.
Understand that I don't think myself so important that all others should
disrupt their schedules to accommodate mine, but there was accommodation
that could have been granted with minimal discomfort on his part.
I do take some except to their declining to work on the prop blade unless I
overhauled the hub to install new grease seals to replace the original
faulty design. Hub overhaul, at my cost, seemed somewhat unfair as the hub
was not leaking and only had 40 hours on it. Rather than presenting me with
a $1400 bill (for the hub overhaul alone), I think the appropriate response
should have been "we'll take care of that under warranty" (given our initial
inadequate design and low hours). In short, they got my money, but not my
gratitude. Overall, I'd give MT a "B" grade, which is pretty good actually,
when you compare it to some other aero companies!
So, no flames, just a little smoldering over my experience.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of
Dave Nelson
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 9:39 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT Prop
I'm sorry to hear about your problem.
All I can say is that:
- They were always upfront with me regarding the motor problems, and the
history of problems they were having
- They explained carefully what the defect in the original "bell" motor was,
why/how they were fixing it, and when
- They never tried to delay, obfusticate, decieve, or deny me or my issues.
- I never said that they told me my problem was isolated. In fact, the
contrary is true.
Sorry... count me as a careful consumer and a happy customer. It might be
who you are talking too (although that shouldn't matter). I have had most
of the technical discussions with Josef, who I understand to be one of the
lead engineers. At the Oshkosh airshow, while he (Josef) was installing the
new motor on my prop, the owner came up and introduced himself - and
apologised for my problems.
The issue with the motor, as I understand it, was that it was a high
efficency design which Josef identified as a "bell" motor. The term "bell"
had to do with the shape of the motor and/or the permanent magnet, which was
shaped like a bell. This enabled a much higher efficency (hence the
smaller, lighter motor as opposed to the replacement). But, as it was
shaped like a bell, it apperantly resonated. Also, I was told it didn't
have bearings on both ends of the shaft - just bushings (not certain of
this). Net is the replacement is a traditional style motor with bearings on
both ends.
Part of the issue with the length of time it took to replace the bell motor
with the new one was that they had problems finding a supplier willing to
sell motors into the aircraft market. This coupled with the testing &
certification process they had to go through meant that it took quite a bit
longer to deliver the replacement than they (or I) would have liked. But,
they've been aware and working on the problem for some time.
I net this out as follows - I had a good dialoge with them at every turn.
They were up front with me throughout. There was never an issue regarding
warranty. They self-identified another issue, the cosmetic damage to the
finish, and volunteered to fix it at their expense. Was the prop too
expensive? Yes. Am I pissed off regarding the RPM restrictions? Yes, but
I'm damn happy they bothered to test for it (remember, they were under no
obligation to do so). Do I feel like they've stood behind their product?
Absolutely.
Just one man's opinion. Please - no flames!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck <mailto:cjensen@dts9000.com> Jensen
To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' <mailto:'reflector@tvbf.org'>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT Prop
TEC
Germans and admitting problems (especially engineering problems!) don't go
well together. When pressed, they have "done the right thing" on a number
of occasions, but my overall experience with MT was a little like having a
tooth drilled without Novocain. Pretty painful during the process but the
end result is okay.
Regarding the feedback from MT about your problems being isolated to you,
well, expecting MT to be an honest broker about their own flaws/problems is
a little like believing a fat guy is going to leave you presents on Xmas
eve. In a perfect world, yes, but in the mean time, Reflector helps.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of
HYTEC45@aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:00 AM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT Prop
In a message dated 12/7/2003 11:13:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
davenali@charter.net writes:
I've had two
motor problems with my electric prop. Yes, it's true, I shouldn't have had
ANY problems, but read on.
I have been through three motors (installed all on my time), the last on
being the newer heavy duty one. Funny, they told me that they have NEVER
had any others go bad. Same with my blade cracking from the restricted RPM
range. How about RPM sencers? Been through two. Seems I am the only
electric having problems.
TEC
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<DIV><SPAN class=171243813-09122003>Dave,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=171243813-09122003>No flames intended. My direct,
personal experience with MT was not that different from yours.
However, when a person has a prop at their repair shop in Florida, and 2 emails,
2 faxes and 2 voicemails don't get answered over a 3 day period, I'm less than
impressed. When I was finally able to talk to Jurgen (I think he
accidently answered the phone), he was obviously a competent and intelligent
individual. My enthusiasm was tempered only by his obvious disinterest in
working to anything other than his schedule. Understand that I don't think
myself so important that all others should disrupt their schedules to
accommodate mine, but there was accommodation that could have been granted with
minimal discomfort on his part.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=171243813-09122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=171243813-09122003>I do take some except to their declining to
work on the prop blade unless I overhauled the hub to install new grease
seals to replace the original faulty design. Hub overhaul, <U>at my
cost</U>, seemed somewhat unfair as the hub was not leaking and only had 40
hours on it. Rather than presenting me with a $1400 bill (for the
hub overhaul alone), I think the appropriate response should have been
"we'll take care of that under warranty" (given our initial inadequate design
and low hours). In short, they got my money, but not my gratitude.
</SPAN><SPAN class=171243813-09122003>Overall, I'd give MT a "B" grade, which is
pretty good actually, when you compare it to some other aero
companies!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=171243813-09122003>So, no flames, just a little smoldering over
my experience.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chuck Jensen <BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>Dave Nelson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 08, 2003 9:39
PM<BR><B>To:</B> reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR: Ordering
an MT Prop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>I'm sorry to hear about your problem.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>All I can say is that:</DIV>
<DIV>- They were always upfront with me regarding the motor problems, and the
history of problems they were having</DIV>
<DIV>- They explained carefully what the defect in the original "bell" motor
was, why/how they were fixing it, and when</DIV>
<DIV>- They never tried to delay, obfusticate, decieve, or deny me or my
issues.</DIV>
<DIV>- I never said that they told me my problem was isolated. In
fact, the contrary is true. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sorry... count me as a careful consumer and a happy customer. It
might be who you are talking too (although that shouldn't matter). I
have had most of the technical discussions with Josef, who I understand to be
one of the lead engineers. At the Oshkosh airshow, while he (Josef) was
installing the new motor on my prop, the owner came up and introduced himself
- and apologised for my problems. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The issue with the motor, as I understand it, was that it was a high
efficency design which Josef identified as a "bell" motor. The term
"bell" had to do with the shape of the motor and/or the permanent magnet,
which was shaped like a bell. This enabled a much higher efficency
(hence the smaller, lighter motor as opposed to the replacement). But,
as it was shaped like a bell, it apperantly resonated. Also, I was told
it didn't have bearings on both ends of the shaft - just bushings (not certain
of this). Net is the replacement is a traditional style motor with
bearings on both ends. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Part of the issue with the length of time it took to replace the bell
motor with the new one was that they had problems finding a supplier willing
to sell motors into the aircraft market. This coupled with the testing
& certification process they had to go through meant that it took quite a
bit longer to deliver the replacement than they (or I) would have liked.
But, they've been aware and working on the problem for some time. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I net this out as follows - I had a good dialoge with them at every
turn. They were up front with me throughout. There was never an
issue regarding warranty. They self-identified another issue, the
cosmetic damage to the finish, and volunteered to fix it at their
expense. Was the prop too expensive? Yes. Am I pissed off
regarding the RPM restrictions? Yes, but I'm damn happy they bothered to
test for it (remember, they were under no obligation to do so). Do I
feel like they've stood behind their product? Absolutely.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just one man's opinion. Please - no flames!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dave</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=cjensen@dts9000.com href="mailto:cjensen@dts9000.com">Chuck
Jensen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=reflector@tvbf.org
href="mailto:'reflector@tvbf.org'">'reflector@tvbf.org'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR: Ordering an MT
Prop</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=942562915-08122003>TEC</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=942562915-08122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=942562915-08122003>Germans and admitting problems
(especially engineering problems!) don't go well together. When
pressed, they have "done the right thing" on a number of occasions,
but my overall experience with MT was a little like having a tooth
drilled without Novocain. Pretty painful during the process but the
end result is okay. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=942562915-08122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=942562915-08122003>Regarding the feedback from MT
about your problems being isolated to you, well, expecting MT to be an
honest broker about their own flaws/problems is a little like believing a
fat guy is going to leave you presents on Xmas eve. In a perfect
world, yes, but in the mean time, Reflector helps.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=942562915-08122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>Chuck Jensen <BR><FONT face=Tahoma><SPAN
class=942562915-08122003><FONT face=Arial> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><SPAN
class=942562915-08122003> </SPAN>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> reflector-admin@tvbf.org
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>HYTEC45@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 08, 2003 10:00
AM<BR><B>To:</B> reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR:
Ordering an MT Prop<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 12/7/2003 11:13:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
davenali@charter.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
face=Arial>I've had two<BR>motor problems with my electric prop.
Yes, it's true, I shouldn't have had<BR>ANY problems, but read
on.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>I have been through three motors (installed all on my time), the last
on being the newer heavy duty one. Funny, they told me that they
have NEVER had any others go bad. Same with my blade cracking from
the restricted RPM range. How about RPM sencers? Been
through two. Seems I am the only electric having problems.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>TEC</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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